Exclusive Interview: Ambassador of France to India Emmanuel Lenain spoke on significance of PM Modi’s Paris visit & said homogenous Rafale fleet will enable greater synergies for Indian armed forces

New Delhi: India and France share a historic defence partnership since the Indian Air Force inducted the first French fighter jet, Ouragan, rechristened as ‘Toofani’, in 1953. With the IAF now operating Rafale fighter jets, the India-France defence partnership has come a long way. Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s upcoming visit to France is expected to push forward the defence ties even further. PM Modi, who has been invited there as the ‘Guest of Honour’ at the Bastille Day celebrations, will be holding a restricted format bilateral meeting on July 13, followed by full format talks on July 14 and an official dinner.

Emmanuel Lenain, the Ambassador of France to India, said the “next step” for India-France defence relationship is to “go beyond co-production and move towards co-development”. Edited excerpts from the interview:

Q: What is the significance of PM Narendra Modi’s visit to France at such a critical juncture? What is France expecting from the visit?

This visit holds deeply symbolic significance as it marks the 25th anniversary of the Indo-French strategic partnership. We wanted to celebrate it in the best possible fashion, by inviting India as a 'Country of Honour' on our National Day. Indian troops will march together with French troops in the military parade down Paris’ most iconic avenue, and IAF Rafale jets will soar in the flypast. This visit will be a special moment to celebrate the Indo-French friendship and our joint achievements. And it will be an opportunity for President (Emmanuel) Macron and Prime Minister Modi to set our common ambitions for the years to come. Sector by sector, we will launch new initiatives together with the goal of boosting our nations’ strategic autonomy, tackling global challenges, and contributing to international peace and security.

Q: Defence partnership is what defines the bilateral ties between India and France now. During this visit by the PM, are we expecting some follow-on orders for Rafale fighters? Will the deal for Rafale-M for the Indian Navy be given green signal now? What about a possible deal with SAFRAN for aircraft engines?

It is true that defence cooperation has historically been a pillar of Indo-French ties. As early as the 1950s, one of the very first Indian Air Force fighter jets was the French aircraft Ouragan, called Toofani in India. Since then, our partnership has now grown to encompass all sectors that matter for sovereignty: defence, but also space, cybersecurity, energy, and critical technologies. This will be the spirit of the discussions on July 14 — how we can join hands to develop the next generation of technologies together. That is the rationale behind the discussions with Safran on co-development of next-generation aircraft engines.

As for the Rafale M for the Indian Navy, the French company Dassault has made an offer. France has demonstrated its commitment to meeting the needs of the Indian Armed Forces by delivering each of the 36 Rafale jets for the IAF absolutely on time, despite the pandemic disruptions. And it looks like the IAF is fully satisfied with the jets’ performance. Having a homogeneous fleet of aircraft would also enable synergies in terms of training, maintenance, and more. But of course, the decision is India’s to make.

Q: Germany said it is keen on the submarine programme. Is the French Naval Group still interested in the P75(I) project?

Naval Group has just completed the Scorpene programme with India’s Mazagon Docks, with the sixth submarine soon to be commissioned. This is a successful, 100 percent technology transfer programme that both our countries can be proud of. Building on this success, Naval Group is ready to continue its partnership with the Indian Navy, whether it be on current or new technologies, depending on the Indian Navy’s needs and specifications.

Q: What is the view of the French defence firms on the Indian government’s insistence on ‘Make in India’?

The French companies have long been pioneers of ‘Make in India’. Co-production has been a long-standing commitment and reality for them. Today, Indo-French joint ventures are producing Rafale components in Nagpur, missiles in Coimbatore.

As I’ve said, the next step is to go beyond co-production and move towards co-development. India has a huge talent pool and world-class facilities. It’s in the interest of both our countries to work together on the technologies of the future. We have been able to commit to these kinds of cooperation because we have built such outstanding mutual trust, and because France fully comprehends India’s drive for strategic autonomy.

Q: Coming to counterterrorism initiatives, how are France and India collaborating with each other keeping in mind the recent developments?

Our two countries have both been victims of terrorism. Each time, we have stood by each other, in solidarity. And we cooperate closely in the fight against this global scourge: we share information, we hold trainings between our special units, we work together in multilateral fora, particularly for listing terrorists. Recently, we have also been stepping up efforts to tackle the financing of terrorism. We were glad that India hosted in November 2022 the third edition of the ‘No Money For Terror’ conference, a French initiative. India has proposed to set up a permanent secretariat for this initiative, which we support.

Q: How is France supporting India’s G20 presidency? Would you be willing to engage with President Putin if he attends the summit? Will issues concerning the Ukraine war be raised during Modi’s French visit?

Whenever President (Emmanuel) Macron and Prime minister Modi meet, they discuss all pressing international issues — including, of course, Russia’s ongoing war of aggression against Ukraine. France believes that India’s voice matters a lot in the world. We truly want to see more of India in international governance. That is why France supports a UNSC reform that would give India a permanent seat.

And that is also why we are glad to see India in the G20 driver’s seat at such a crucial moment for multilateralism. We fully support India’s G20 presidency so that the G20 can live up to its responsibility and deliver solutions on global issues, such as climate change, development finance as well as the economic consequences of Russia’s war. President Macron believes in keeping the world united to face these challenges, instead of breaking it down into blocs such as East vs West, North vs South. This resonates with India’s vision of “Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam”. India has a unique ability to act as a bridge and build consensus and compromise.

With respect to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we have very close and trust-based exchanges with India. We respect each other’s principles, constraints and autonomy of decision. On this basis, we work together on trying to find pathways for peace.

Q: On trade issues, how optimistically is the French industry looking at the India-EU free trade agreement as well as the investment pact? Will this be discussed during the bilateral?

France supports the conclusion of an ambitious trade agreement between the European Union and India. It would make economic and geopolitical sense. It’s obviously a complex negotiation, but the political will is there. We must aim for a balanced, ambitious and mutually beneficial agreement.